GEN 31:31 Comma really needed #1053

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opened 2022-01-12 19:05:33 +00:00 by bobj · 6 comments

bobj commented

2022-01-12 19:05:33 +00:00

\v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "Because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force I left secretly.

ISSUE: The quoted sentence in this verse is difficult to parse because it has a sixteen-word introductory phrase that is not set off from the supplied subject/verb "I left secretly."

SUGGESTED CHANGE:

\v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "Because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force, I left secretly.

OR (similar to the tN's AT for this sentence):

\v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "I left secretly because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force.

\v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "**Because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force I left secretly.** ISSUE: The quoted sentence in this verse is difficult to parse because it has a sixteen-word introductory phrase that is not set off from the supplied subject/verb "I left secretly." SUGGESTED CHANGE: \v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "**Because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force, I left secretly.** OR (similar to the tN's AT for this sentence): \v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "**I left secretly because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force.**

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-11 15:05:47 +00:00

Owner

I agree. We definitely need the comma if the sentence starts with the introductory phrase.

However, when people start reading the verse, they could still easily think that "Because I was afraid... force" was Jacob's answer to Laban's "Why did you steal my gods?"

\v 30 Now you have gone away because you longed to return to your father's house. But why did you steal my gods?"

\s5
\v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "Because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force, I left secretly.

So if the audio team has not yet recorded Genesis, I would be fine with putting the reason clause at the end of v 31.

I agree. We definitely need the comma if the sentence starts with the introductory phrase. However, when people start reading the verse, they could still easily think that "Because I was afraid... force" was Jacob's answer to Laban's "Why did you steal my gods?" \v 30 Now you have gone away because you longed to return to your father's house. But why did you steal my gods?" \s5 \v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, "Because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force, I left secretly. So **if** the audio team has not yet recorded Genesis, I would be fine with putting the reason clause at the end of v 31.

SusanQuigley added the

John

label 2022-02-11 15:05:55 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-02-24 15:47:34 +00:00

Owner

Where is the "I left secretly" coming from? I don't see it in Hebrew.

JohnH added

Susan

and removed

John

labels 2022-02-24 15:47:43 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-24 16:11:28 +00:00

Owner

I think "I left secretly" came from 31:27.
\v 27 Why did you flee secretly and trick me and did not tell me? I would have sent you away with celebration and with songs, with tambourine and with harps.

In v31 Jacob was answering the question from v27.
Jacob doesn't reply to Laban's question about the gods until v32.

If we want to make it explicit that Jacob was answering that question, I think "I left secretly" should come first because Laban had already brought up that topic.

\v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, “I fled secretly because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force.

I think "I left secretly" came from 31:27. \v 27 **Why did you flee secretly** and trick me and did not tell me? I would have sent you away with celebration and with songs, with tambourine and with harps. In v31 Jacob was answering the question from v27. Jacob doesn't reply to Laban's question about the gods until v32. If we want to make it explicit that Jacob was answering that question, I think "I left secretly" should come first because Laban had already brought up that topic. \v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, “**I fled secretly** because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force.

SusanQuigley added

John

and removed

Susan

labels 2022-02-24 16:12:15 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-02-24 16:51:28 +00:00

Owner

I don't see any other English version that includes the implicit info except the NLT.

It is not a super urgent change, but I think we should take it out and explain it in the notes.

If making any changes to this verse will mess up the audio recording, I say just put in the comma as Bob suggested.

If we can make other changes to the text now, I prefer what I suggested above, but I am fine with keeping "I fled secretly," and putting it at the beginning of the sentence.

I don't see any other English version that includes the implicit info except the NLT. It is not a super urgent change, but I think we should take it out and explain it in the notes. If making any changes to this verse will mess up the audio recording, I say just put in the comma as Bob suggested. If we can make other changes to the text now, I prefer what I suggested above, but I am fine with keeping "I fled secretly," and putting it at the beginning of the sentence.

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-24 18:06:02 +00:00

Owner

I added the comma.

I'm fine with taking out "I left secretly" and having a TN. However, I don't know if the people who use the audio recording will have access to TN. What would you think of starting the verse with "I fled secretly" in 22-01 and the audio recording, and later deleting it in the next revision?

I'll ask Glenn before doing anything else to 22-01.

I added the comma. I'm fine with taking out "I left secretly" and having a TN. However, I don't know if the people who use the audio recording will have access to TN. What would you think of starting the verse with "I fled secretly" in 22-01 and the audio recording, and later deleting it in the next revision? I'll ask Glenn before doing anything else to 22-01.

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-24 19:41:58 +00:00

Owner

Glenn was fine with a change. The ULB now says:
\v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, “I fled secretly because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force.

I updated TN.

I'll leave this open and label it "Not urgent" in case we want to remove "I fled secretly" in the next revision.

Glenn was fine with a change. The ULB now says: \v 31 Jacob answered and said to Laban, “**I fled secretly** because I was afraid and thought that you would take your daughters from me by force. I updated TN. I'll leave this open and label it "Not urgent" in case we want to remove "I fled secretly" in the next revision.

SusanQuigley added

Not Urgent

and removed

John

labels 2022-02-24 19:42:13 +00:00